What do you need to do to bring your income to the next level? What are the strategies you can leverage to invest like the ultra-rich? Chris Larsen tells you how as he is interviewed by the hosts of the Money Insights Podcast, Christian Allen and Rod Zabriskie. Chris talks about his journey as an investor and what he has learned as an entrepreneur and real estate investor. We learn more about real estate, insurance and alternative investments and how to leverage them. Tune in and learn more from Chris.

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Watch The Episode Here:

Listen To The Podcast Here:

The Money Insights Podcast With Chris Larsen

We are here to do an interview, which we already did with Chris Larsen. He is a partner of ours. We’ve been working with him for a few years. He’s a real estate syndicator and professional. He’s got a fantastic story. He spent eighteen years in the medical device sales world. He’s very successful. As he was doing it, he would invest in real estate. Eighteen years later, he moved completely over. Now, he’s syndicating deals, has a bunch of investors and has been doing a bunch of stuff, not to mention the show. He’s got a lot going on.

Maybe the word for him is driven. He’ll get into this in the interview but I’m thinking about a guy who sees what he wants, goes after it and overcome some obstacles to get there. It’s pretty cool.

He does have a great story so we hope you’ll read the entire episode. You’ll learn some great stuff and know Chris’s story. You can check out what he’s got going on and get involved in that way if it’s interesting to you. Without further ado, let’s get into our interview with Chris Larsen.

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Chris Larsen, thanks for joining us on the show. How are you?

I’m so excited to see you.

Chris is a good friend of the show and of the business. He’s a partner of ours. We’ll talk a little bit more about the various things he’s got going on but we know Chris well. We’re excited to have him on. Chris, thanks for joining us. We’re excited to learn a little bit more about you and all the interesting stuff you’ve got going on.

I’m fired up. I love what you do. You have provided a lot of value, not only to me but also to a lot of our readers and investors over the past few years.

Thanks, Chris. We appreciate that. Let’s jump right into it, Chris. I want to know a little bit about your story. Tell us a little bit about your story and your background. Maybe before we even get into the show you’ve got going on, you’re syndicating, all those things, give us a little bit of background. What’s Chris all about?

One, I’m all about enjoying life as much as possible. I’m going to come out and I’ll be right around the corner from you doing some mountain biking out there with a good friend. I live in Asheville, North Carolina. We’ve lived here for years. My boys are not quite as long because they weren’t born when we were here. I started on my investing journey back in college. We’re going to talk a lot about this. I had a couple of momentous points in my life that acted as points of reflection and pivoting points and overlaid some things that made a big impact.

My father died when I was five. I had an early experience with life insurance because he accidentally had two policies and unfortunately, they weren’t very large but those proceeds allowed me to go to college with some scholarships in-state tuition and come out the other side debt-free which was a real blessing. When I was in college, I raced bicycles. I was talking about coming out there and riding. I’ve had a real passion for cycling for years. I started racing when I was fourteen years old.

What type of racing?

My first real bike was a mountain bike but then I started racing road bikes about a few years later. The Tour de France, while we’re recording this, is going on. I love the strategy involved with road cycling. I love being able to go out and ride for 2, 3, 4 hours. It helped calm my mind and my body over the years. It gave me a lot of relationships and a lot of lessons into a discipline over the years. It helped me not only professionally but also personally. I could even say as an investor.

You’re doing team racing?

It keeps you in good shape too.

It helps you stay in shape. It’s a lifelong sport. One of the things that a lot of people don’t realize and if you’re watching Tour de France, you can pick up on this but cycling is a real team sport. There’s a lot of strategy because of the aerodynamics, the energy conservation, even the things like fueling. If you’ve ever seen an F1 race, you see the driver and the pit team but you see the people communicating. It’s similar. You have a radio if you’re racing. You’re getting food handed up. Your teammates are going back to the cars. They’re giving you water and food. It’s neat.

Mountain biking is a little different. You’re out there on your own. You have to change your own tires. Road cycling is a real team sport. It’s almost like F1 in a lot of ways, even the technology. McLaren sponsors a cycling team as well. They use the same wind tunnels and carbon technology to do that. I raced with different teams from fourteen and I quit officially in my mid-30s.

A lot of people are saying investing is a team sport. I don’t know if it’s new but that’s a new phrase that I’ve been hearing and that’s what it reminds me of. There’s probably a lot to carry over with anything team-related that we can take into business and investing. We’re going to jump into that. Chris, you’re in college. You get started and got exposure to the investment world. You’re at least interested in it. What happened next after you go through college? What’s the next stage of your life?

There were some momentous points in my life and we dove a little bit deeper into the cycling there. My best friend, my training partner, my roommate, Chris, passed away between my freshman and sophomore years of college. I’m in college for engineering. I knew two weeks in that I didn’t want to be an engineer. All I want to do is race my bike. I raced another year after Chris passed away. I talked all about this in my book, which if you’re reading, I’ll tell you how to get that from our website here. I realized I wasn’t happy and fulfilled. I quit racing my junior year of college.

I didn’t want to be an engineer. I’m not racing. I was floating out there. What I did know is I needed to live my life to the fullest. I needed to make the most out of every day. I also knew that you had to have money to do that. I had been introduced to investing by the same family friend that introduced me to cycling, Clint Provenza. I thanked him in my book because he introduced probably the two most important things that pivoted my life during those years.

I started trading in the stock market but ended up in real estate because I liked the leverage and control. Over the past years, we went from buying single-family properties to having thousands of units of apartments that we own and manage. We syndicate and bring in investors alongside us. My passion is showing and educating others how to best manage their money, make more money, keep more money, grow their money, and hopefully, shortcut the path that I took.

You’ve got a great story, Chris. It’s a hard story at times. I know because my dad passed when I was nineteen and that was difficult. Having your parent and a close personal friend pass is tough.

I have a quick question. When you were pausing, not racing anymore, trying to redefine and you mentioned family and friends, maybe that’s the answer but what were the voices that were guiding you as you’re defining the vision for your life?

At that time, I didn’t have a lot of direction. I was searching for people and ideas to help me at that time. I was seeking mentors. I was trying to find people that could help me. We had a great ministry on campus when I was in college that we went to. It was nice to have a community that I could go to and do that. I had a community within the cycling community that I could spend time with but a lot of it was me going out and searching because I was in this in-between stage trying to figure out what I wanted to do with my life, not just from a professional perspective but also a personal perspective. I didn’t have a girlfriend when Chris passed away. All my life was in cycling. It was almost a blank canvas coming out the other side of that year. A lot of the things I learned is in cycling, the discipline, the hard work, helped translate over when I started to pivot.

Chris, you had the next stage. You had a successful career in the medical device world. Maybe talk a little bit about the transition from being full-time in the medical field to going into full-time real estate investing. What was that like? What advice could you give to people who might be trying to make that same type of a jump?

I’ve learned a lot of things here over the past years as I’ve made this transition. I bought my first property at 21. It was less than $3,000 that I put down on that property. It was a little $90,000 townhouse. I was telling the story on another show I was on. We call it house hack. I’d rent out 2 to 3 bedrooms and I had the third bedroom. I bought the place next door. I had this little mini-six unit apartment but I didn’t have a lot of money. My parents didn’t have a lot of money. My stepfather was a contractor. My mother was an assistant teacher, not even a teacher. She made $30,000 a year.

The first year I got out and worked professionally. I made more than both of them combined to put things into perspective but I had to get some capital. I looked and I thought, “What career can I make six figures and become accredited?” I read Rich Dad Poor Dad. I got a copy from Robert Kiyosaki himself in Phoenix a couple of years ago. He said, “You got to be accredited if you want to have access to the best investments out there that the rich have.”

I looked at all these careers. I was selling insurance. I was a licensed insurance agent when I was finishing my MBA in Finance. The agent I worked with introduced me to a friend that sold medical devices. I’m sitting down talking to this guy. Remember, I was in biomechanical engineering. We designed and analyze these medical implants. I sit down with this guy for lunch one day and he tells me he sells these same implants that my professor had designed and that we were going through this process a couple of years before.

I was like, “This is so cool. What do you do?” He goes, “I go into the OR. I work with surgeons.” I’m like, “That’s amazing.” He told me how much money he made. I was like, “I can become accredited doing this too. This is the coolest thing.” I always say I was an investor first but I spent the next few years in pharmaceutical but then ultimately in the medical device industry. Once I got to the point where I was making a good amount of money after working hard for about five years, I settled in. I was making a healthy six-figure income. My wife and I saved 50% of what we made and we poured that into real estate.

My whole plan and goal were to be financially independent within ten years. I had a number in mind and we hit that figure. We were debt-free and financially independent by the age of 38 with a family. This isn’t one of these fire stories where I’m living out of an Airstream with no kids. We got a nice upper-middle-class existence. What I’ve found over the past years as we’ve expanded our investments to include other investors is that my passion is sharing that story. As much as I loved working in the industry, getting to know these geniuses, brain surgeons, orthopedic spine surgeons that I got to work with, I realized I couldn’t do both anymore. Not if I was going to be a good father and a good husband.

What I found to be my mission in life, which is sharing the story because so many people need to understand that you can be financially independent. That doesn’t mean you have to quit your job. You can be better at your job. I spent five more years in the industry after I didn’t have to, just for the record. Over the past years, it became evident. I couldn’t do both anymore. It was a real struggle, Christian. I wrestled with it. Only in the last few months that I come to grips and accept that I was going to walk away.

Maybe people are reluctant to talk about this but as a male, as a husband, as a father, as a provider of a family for the past decades to say, “I’m going to put that over on the side and turn the page on that chapter,” I struggled with that. It took me about six full months to be comfortable with taking that leap. I’m like, “What are people going to think? What if I don’t have anything to do tomorrow? I don’t want to go ride the bike for five hours every day.” What I found was when I did that, the flood gates opened. People started calling me. People wanted to know my story. They’re like, “You’re not selling real estate?” I’m like, “I don’t sell real estate.” I’d tell them the story. They read my book and they’re like, “I didn’t know this world existed.”

The past months have been awesome sharing the story, opportunities and education with others. It also allowed me to do things like start a financial literacy course for a local nonprofit but probably the most important is it allows me to do things like take my boys to camp, go for a bike ride on a Monday morning when my kids are home from school or not at camp during the summer, travel, expand some of the things that are important to me. Truly be a business owner and help out more people than I was on a day-to-day basis years ago.

We can attest to that. We got to see Chris. He brought his boy out to do some skiing. We met up with him while he was here. He’s doing it and loving it.

It’s been a cool transition to see. I want to jump back a little bit, Chris, to get into some of the businessy stuff here. What are some of the key things that attracted you to the alternative investment space and maybe specifically to real estate?

My goal is to help investors and individuals shortcut the path that I took. My MBA is in portfolio management. It’s that degree back there. We’re talking about learning how to manage big portfolios, institutional level portfolios. I found out all this information about the financial industry. There are all these secrets and fees. I’m thinking, “This isn’t how I personally invest. This is different. I know there’s a better way.” I didn’t go down in a financial advisor path. I didn’t go work on Wall Street. I found this other career path that I mentioned but I was still investing. How I did become accredited is I learn more over the next decade. I started to study.

When people hear things like Donald Trump doesn’t pay any taxes, I say, “Why doesn’t he pay taxes?” I started asking questions. What I wanted to know was how the ultra-rich invested. What I found was they invest in the stock market but they don’t have 401(k)s. They’re not pouring their money into mutual funds. They have some there but they own businesses and cashflow real estate. 20% to 30% of the portfolios of these ultra-rich families are in income-producing real estate. Do you know what else they own? It’s cash value life insurance. Not term life insurance.

Dave Ramsey provides a great service. 70%, 80%, 90% of Americans don’t have that abundance mentality and do that. It’s great to pay off your debt but I always say like Dave Ramsey, that’s investing advice for poor people. If you want to be poor and you think you can retire on $1 million, you follow his advice. I want to know how the ultra-rich invest. Am I worth $100 million? Not yet but I want to set up my life for that. If you’re reading, you don’t have to have $100 million to invest like that. You can start off with $100,000. Educate yourself and learn those things. What I found were these “alternatives” and how crazy is it that we call real estate an alternative investment?

We call whole life insurance an alternative investment. Insurance companies have been around longer than the IRS. Insurance itself has been around before the United States was here. Owning real estate goes back to the pre-stock market, all these things. What we call alternatives is what I call the fundamentals. These are the fundamental things that you should be investing in. The cool thing that I found, Christian, is the ultimate. What I call in my book the Holy Grail of real estate is multifamily real estate or income-producing real estate because what it does when you add these “alternatives” in your portfolio is it decreases the risk and increases the returns. That’s what Ray Dalio calls the Holy Grail of investing and that’s what I found.

That’s a great transition into syndication. Most people here will have a pretty good idea. Our reader base and clientele is primarily high-net-worth people but we hope to attract all sorts of people. Not everyone will necessarily know what syndication is. You started to make this transition from doing your own real estate investing. Talk about that but then also define or give the audience a better idea of what syndication actually is.

Syndication is nothing more than pulling and bringing a team of investors together to purchase a property. We invite investors to invest alongside us and that’s what we do. We form a partnership and an LLC. It’d be no different than if the three of us all invested $100,000 to put $300,000 down on $1 million property. We split the ownership between the three of us. It’s the same thing, except maybe instead of three, we may have 300 investors and instead of $1 million property, we may be buying a $90 million property.

The neat thing is when you buy these larger properties, they’re more efficient. You can run them like a business. If you’re a limited partner as our investors are, they get to be passive. They can focus on their craft, which may be spine surgery like we were talking about. They’re experts at that. They’re making a lot of money. A lot of these surgeons that I work with as investors loved what they do. They want to keep doing that but they see the value in real estate.

Personally, I started buying real estate when I was 21. I managed my own little portfolio for fifteen years before I ran into somebody in a meeting with my wife. We come to this realization after my second son was born. This is another turning point in my life. My mother had passed away the week before my second son was born. A year later, my wife and I had figured out that it cost us $11,000 for her to work that past year and that’s because we had to pay for childcare. After we paid taxes on what she made and paid for childcare, it costs us almost $1,000 a month.

My wife is an architect. She goes to school a year longer than I did. I sat down across from her. I’ll never forget I said to her, “It would make more sense for you to stay home to be a stay-at-home mom than work. Is that what you want to do?” She said, “No.” If you met my older son, you’d know why she immediately said no because he’s way more work. We said, “We got to do something different.” We end up hiring a business coach.

We’re at this meeting. I was lamenting the fact that I had this pain in the butt tenants and I was dealing with these properties. This guy goes, “You should look in the multifamily real estate.” I’m like, “Apartments? That’s the same thing, right?” He goes, “No. I’m talking about syndications.” I’m telling him I’m working 60, 80 hours a week. We’re making all this money and pay all these taxes. My wife might stay at home. We’re thinking of other ways. I talked to these operators. We ended up investing. My former partner and I realized we have as much or more experience in real estate as the operators that we’re working with.

What we did is we formed a partnership. We brought those operators on the first deal we did as consultants. We bought a 100-unit apartment, a nice round number, down in a great submarket of Atlanta, right near the new Braves Stadium. That property has done phenomenally well after the past five years. The reason we did is we had a lot of our own money that we want to invest our family’s money. Friends started asking, “What do you do with your money?”

I’ll never forget the first spine surgeon. I’m 30 years old. He looks at me and he’s like, “What should I do with my money?” Here’s a 55-year-old genius spine surgeon and he’s asking me, this kid probably in his eyes, “What would I do with my money?” He knew that I invest in real estate. We started bringing in friends and family. Those 40 investors we had initially over the first few years have grown into over 400 investors that we now work with.

You focus primarily on multifamily. Is that exclusively the asset class you’re working in?

I do not oppose working in other asset classes. My view is fluid but I’m everywhere[PV1] .

Maybe expertise is probably the better way to put it.

About 80%, what we do is multifamily. We have a self-storage fund as well. We’ll close on our first mobile home park. If you look at multifamily over the past decades, it’s performed exceedingly well. We focus more on B-plus, even luxury assets that have been built in the past few years because they have a higher resident quality. These are white-collar workers who can work from home. They can afford rents a little more consistently during downturns but there are other asset classes that have opened up areas of opportunity like mobile home parks for affordable housing and workforce housing, which make a lot of sense. We focus heavily on multifamily. I’m always transparent. About 80% of my portfolio in real estate is in the multifamily space as well.

What types of investors would be good and are a fit working with your group?

First off, there is how you qualify on paper and then how you think. We work with investors that want to be passive, Christian and Rod. I have my college roommate who’s high up in Google. He likes what he does. He makes a lot of money and he invests money in that.

Not everyone wants to be a full-time real estate investor or a full-time investor in general. There’s got to be a place where people can go and invest passively.

If you want to be a direct owner in income-producing real estate but you want to be passive, we’re a great option. Also if you think this might be a path that you want to take, it’s a great option to invest with somebody and learn. I do have coaching clients. I don’t coach individuals in how to specifically go and buy multifamily but certainly, there are options out there as well. I always think you should start as an investor. Learn it from somebody that knows what they’re doing.

As far from a financial perspective, our offerings are typically for accredited investors. If you’re reading and you’re not sure what is accredited, as an individual you have to make $200,000 a year or more, $300,000 as a couple or $1 million net worth without your personal residence. If you’re an accredited investor and you’re interested in this, we don’t have a lot of information on what we offer on our website but you can check out NextLevelIncome.com and click on the Invest link. You can schedule a call to talk to me. I’m happy to talk to you if you think you might be a good fit for what we do and want to look at the opportunities we have.

We didn’t talk much about the show but hit on it. What inspired you to start it? What are the primary things you like to hit on?

At Next-Level Income, we like to help people make more money, keep more money and grow their money. You have been awesome guests on the Next-Level Income Show. We talk about all those different things. We have entrepreneurs that have come on, insurance specialists and tax strategy specialists on how to keep more on your hard-earned money. We also have people that are operators in the real estate space, oil and gas space, traders that talk about how to grow your money. We’re not exclusive to real estate.

There’s a reason we started it and this was years ago. My marketing partner, Caleb, was my co-host on the show through the first season. He said, “Chris, you should start a podcast.” I’m like, “I don’t want to start a podcast. That’s a lot of work. It wasn’t something that interested me.” I thought about it for about a week and I said, “Caleb, we should start a podcast. I want you on it with me.” He’s like, “Why do you want me on it? This isn’t my expertise.” I said, “You’re a Millennial. You have a cool perspective.”

He helped me start it. He’s still behind the scenes. He helps me produce it, helps with my website and doing all those things. We started specifically to help curate the information that I was sharing almost every day on phone calls and on emails. After answering for the twentieth time the same question, I’m like, “Why don’t we just do a podcast episode or a blog on this?” That’s why we wrote the book.

Caleb said, “You could write a book out of your blog posts.” I said, “Why don’t I just write a book? We’ll take the blog posts out of the book.” He’s like, “That’s the same thing.” A few later, I wrote all ten chapters of the book but it’s important to note that I added chapter three, Your Opportunity Fund. That was a big inspiration from you, which talks all about how I personally use cash value life insurance through what we call the investment optimizer together. I talk about that in chapter three of my book, which you can also get on the website.

You did a perfect transition into that, Chris. What types of things have you may be used in conjunction with the investment optimizer? What types of things would you think you could encourage other people to use?

You have to look at investing like a pyramid. You have to have your base. Remember, we talked about making more money first. If you’re reading and you’re like, “I want to invest and be financially independent,” find a career and pick a profession that you are good at. You can help a lot of people and you can make a lot of money. There are lots of options out there. I tell my boys, “If you want to make a lot of money, you need to help a lot of people and be good at what you do so pick something that suits your skillset where you can help a lot of people. Get good at it and maximize the amount of money you’re making.”

If you have a business, optimize your business. That’s what I help my coaching clients do. That’s number one before you do anything else. Number two, figure out how to keep as much money as possible. Make sure you’re working with a tax strategist. That doesn’t mean TurboTax or your accountant that you give your receipts to once a year. It’s somebody that helps you look in the middle of 2021 out through the year and figure out how you’re going to keep more of that money. People like yourselves work with people like Rod and Christian.

If you can take money and put it into your own personal bank essentially, figure out then what to do. I ask my coaching clients and my investors this, “What are you doing with your money in between deals?” If you’re putting it in a checking account, savings account, a money market or God forbid the stock market that might go down while you’re waiting for that next investment, I want you to think about something more secure like cash value life insurance. That’s what we personally do. Once you make a lot of money and have your insurance needs met, figure out how to maximize your opportunity fund as I call it. It’s that opportunity fund where that money sits, grows and provides you that stability that you can access if you have an emergency.

During the pandemic in 2020, we accessed over $200,000 to have liquidity my wife and I. It was great to have that. It was amazing. the other thing you can do is you can take that money and then you can invest it in real estate opportunities when they come along and do that. The base is having a higher income earning profession or business. Number two, make sure you have optimized your tax strategy as well as your insurance structure and then number three, start to look at your investing opportunities. Personally, I flow everything through that investment optimizer approach.

You hit on an important point there and it’s liquidity. The nice thing with investment optimizers is it’s about keeping liquid cash, earning interest, creating a return, whether or not you’re using it actively. There are not many situations that liquidity can’t solve. I love that you hit on that. It’s super important. Whether it’s in our investment world or a personal world, having plenty of liquidity makes a huge difference but it’s hard to do if you feel like you’re losing money to inflation by having liquidity. It ends up becoming this double-edged sword that becomes difficult for people to navigate.

It’s increasingly harder in this world. What are you going to do? Put your money in a money market earning? I don’t even know what my money market fund earns. Maybe less than 0.5%, 0.2%, something like that. It’s ridiculous. Inflation is real. We’re seeing prices skyrocket in a lot of areas. I wouldn’t call what we’re talking about an investment. This is a tool. There are very few tools and vehicles out there that you can use and have access to. Your 401(k), IRA and mutual fund are not going to do that.

I have personal experience with my father, as well as my best friend. My best friend asked me one day. He’s like, “What are you doing?” This is what inspired me to work with you all to put these educational resources out there. It was years ago when his wife passed away. Years before, he called me and said, “What do you do for insurance?” I said, “I use whole life, I have these policies.” He’s like, “Wasn’t that expensive?” I said, “From a premium perspective, it seems more expensive than term but here are the advantages. You have the protection for your family.”

A year after his wife passed away. He says, “I never thanked you for this. After I talked to you, we took out policies, my wife and I.” The proceeds from that insurance policy were enough so that he doesn’t have to work ever again. He moved back to his hometown here, a mile away from me in Asheville. His daughters were a year different than my sons, they’re like brothers and sisters. They come over multiple times a week. He was able to focus on his family because of this.

If you’re reading and thinking, “That’s not a great investment,” it’s not an investment. It’s a tool. No one would ever ask my friend, “What was the return on that policy?” That’s not relevant at all. What’s relevant is what it allowed him to do. For me, it’s a real personal issue that I’ve dealt with in my own family. I’ve also seen my best friend and the impact it’s had on him and his family. We’re talking about this in terms of investment, Christian but you always have to remember why these things are in place. God forbid that it ever has to be used but it certainly is something that can give you a high level of peace at the end of the day.

Chris, you’ve got an amazing story. Before we let you go, what kind of stuff do you see yourself doing over the next years? I’m curious. You probably weren’t thinking, “I’m going to come and give these guys my next-year vision.” You built syndications, written the book and got the podcast. You’ve got a lot of cool stuff going on. We’ve enjoyed our relationship. Where do you see yourself heading? What do things look like over the next years for Chris?

I know I’m not going to be a professional cyclist. I put that in my rearview mirror. I turned that chapter. I love living every day to the most and plan to live many more years. Looking a few years out, it’s been inspirational to work with investors. The big thing is I started coaching some clients when I exited the medical device industry. I’ve had turndown a lot of coaching clients. As I look out over the next years, we’re going to keep growing our real estate business. I want to make sure that I’m devoting a lot of time to my boys that are 11 and 9 because the next years are very formative.

When it comes to me professionally, my goal is to scale the coaching business because I want to help more people. We’re going to be launching a course here in 2022. We’re going to be putting together tools that can help as many people as possible to shortcut the path to financial independence. If you’re reading, you can live your best life. You can have the most impact you can on this world. What I want to do is help as many people over the next years do the same thing. I’m excited to have you as part of the team as we do that.

Before we let you go, remind everybody where we can find you, maybe at two levels, where they can go check out your stuff and then if they want to connect with you personally in some way, what’s the best way to do that?

We try to make it easy. It’s NextLevelIncome.com. You can check out our podcast there where you can see great guests like yourselves on previous shows. We have a blog. Everything I’ve talked about, all that’s there on the website. It’s on the blog and on the podcast. The book, get a free copy. Click on the book link. If you put your address in, I’ll even send you a copy as well. If you want to get in touch with me, you can reach out at Chris@NextLevelIncome.com. We can schedule a call to talk if there’s anything I can help you with on your journey.

Chris, thanks for being on the show with us. We super appreciate it. We’ll talk to you again soon.

I enjoy every time we get to talk. Thanks so much for the opportunity.

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I hope you found this episode valuable. I have one more thing to give to you. We have a page for my coaching clients where you can get a free copy of my book as well as much more from previous guests on the show. Check out NextLevelIncome.com coaching to get a free copy of my book, audiobook and much more. I’ll send you a copy of my book and cover all the shipping costs as a thank you for reading the show. Also, please like, share and take 90 seconds to give us a rating on Apple Podcasts.

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